What do you think about PodTrapper's pricing?

[marwatk]

Hi all,

So I'm unsure about the price hike, and I wanted to get opinions on it. If anyone ever mentions the price it's always commenting that they can't believe how low it is (I've never had anyone say it's just right or to high), and usually it's a comment like "grab it before the developer realizes he's selling it for too cheap".

I thought $9.99 was a good price, but they're making me rethink that. On one hand, it's a simple app (well, at least I thought it would be, it's getting more complex by the day), and applies to a relatively small market (for now), so $9.99 seems right. On the other hand, the retail sites take a 40-50% cut depending on how it's purchased, and there are even cheesier apps out there selling for $20 (and by selling I mean people are actually buying them). And, I do think PodTrapper is worth more than two meals at taco bell, but that's just me

Then you've got very similar if not direct competition from AudioBay, BerryTunes, etc, all charging 15-20, so I'm not really sure what to think.

So, I'm putting this out there, and I may delay the hike or eliminate it depending on the response I get. What do you guys think?

-Marcus

[diffused]

$15-$20 seems reasonable.

[andrewnyc]

I thought the $10 price was good. So far I have never bought an app for my BB that costs more than $10.

[emlarson]

In terms of "value" I think $12.99 is fine. But, like it or not, there is a "psychological barrier" depending on the number of digits; when the price was $9.99 I thought, "That's so low, there's no point in not paying, even if the app blows up tomorrow." I'd probably have still paid $12.99, but I'd have given it slightly more thought.

It sounds silly, but it's actually a valid question and a bigger one than if you were debating $7.99 vs. $9.99 or $11.99 vs. $13.99.

Good luck -- hope it works out, because I think PodTrapper's great and I want to see it live a long life!

[gahoo]

In terms of "value" I think $12.99 is fine. But, like it or not, there is a "psychological barrier" depending on the number of digits; when the price was $9.99 I thought, "That's so low, there's no point in not paying, even if the app blows up tomorrow." I'd probably have still paid $12.99, but I'd have given it slightly more thought.

It sounds silly, but it's actually a valid question and a bigger one than if you were debating $7.99 vs. $9.99 or $11.99 vs. $13.99.

Good luck -- hope it works out, because I think PodTrapper's great and I want to see it live a long life!

The difficulty is that this type of app is a "must have" for some but not for many. I would have gladly paid $25 for it. It is a must have. I only listen to podcasts these days and with this app I no longer need to sync my storm ever, never miss a podacst, and it tracks placement within podcasts. Problem is that you will probably sell 3x more at 9.99 than at $25. So how much should it cost is hard to answer without knowing how many people have bought so far, whether sales are increasing/decreasing, etc. To me it is worth more than 9.99, but that doesn't mean it should necessarily sell for more. Also, those that have found this forum are likely to be those that think it is a terrific app worth more than 9.99 - so the poll is probably going to skew that way.

[maxaudet]

I bought it today since I want the software but prefer to pay $10 instead of $13 but I think $13 is a good deal anyway.
I paid $20-25 for berrytunes

[jastop]

Any of the prices that are being discussed are reasonable, it's a great application. But if I were in your position I would think about your longer term vision and your support requirements. You could continue to charge a relatively modest (or even lower) price, and try to get as many subscribers as you can. In parallel with your subscriber growth you could be marketing the application for the purposes of selling it, or perhaps privately branding it. There is the possibility that can make a lot of money with this type of business model, but it's not as fun as working with us end users. If you brand it for a big media company they will insist on delivery schedules, and specific features, and all of the other stuff you now get to decide on your own. But on the other hand if someone gives you a big bag of money that might be OK. If you continue to work on your own, your biggest issue may be that the modest license fees will plateau and perhaps start to fall off. It might not be worth while to put as much time into the product. But RIMM will continue to update the platform and all of us users will get cranky when something stops working. At that point you will either have to let us go on our own, do support for free, or charge some kind of maintenance/upgrade fee. An upgrade fee doesn't bother me until it starts to become frequent or more expensive than the original application.

My suggestion is that if your long term plans include staying independent you stick with the $10 number, but change it to an annual subscription fee. At any point you let people stop paying the subscription fee, but then they stop getting your frequent and valuable fixes and enhancements. I would see that as a fair exchange of value.

[corronchos]

Your value vs. cost ratio is what's keeping PodTrapper's legendary status! Don't up the price and blend with the competition cuz, unless you read the forums and reviews before you purchase, PodTrapper will be just another app. New customers tend to look at the dollars first, quality second.

That being said, you deserve a raise as $10 is a little TOO distinguishing for such a quality product as PodTrapper. I think you can maintain your edge and charge a very reasonable $13.

[FragU]

I believe that $14.99 is a reasonable figure... and as to the retail sites... SCREW EM. Continue to create high quality content, and ask your "friends" (okay, clients) to spread the word. Perhaps offer an incentive (refer five new clients get a PodTrapper T-shirt) to gain business/popularity.

[mrcoyote]

I grabbed my registration code the other day at $9.99. I'd probably have paid $19.99 without a second thought. However.. that being said, Viigo is playing with 'podcasts' - and had audio working in their private beta for a short while before disabling it 'temporarily'.... its a reason I held off registering for almost the full trial period time - "just in case" viigo podcasts started working again... however, you keep adding new functionality to podtrapper which is great and I like it more and more with each update.. Not a clear answer, I know... but take it for what its worth.

[Lion]

This is for certain worth 14.99 .. a rework of the UI to make it look modern (Viigo, BeeJiveIM, etc) and it'll be a 19.99 application. I've spent more for programs I've used less!

[Jeff]

Personally I think this is a 14.99 to 19.99 app, sure the interface is not as polished as some other apps but You can always polish a turd, and it will still be a turd. I prefer functionality to asthetics anyday, and Podtrapper is about as functional as I have seen.

Keep up the good work, hope this price change works out for you.

Jeff

[lukers83]

I would pay up to $20 for a software which i can demo, and I know that the software problems are being addressed. One thing that holds me back is that it will not pick up my favorite podcast, Econ Talk. So if those three things are all addressed, I would pay $20, right now I would pay $10.

[countstex]

I've just tonight paid for my full version, at $9.99 that just over £6 which is a tiny amount for an application with such a solid foundation. Basically PodTrapper does what it says on the tin.. or web page at least. Maybe I'm unusual as I've paid much more for other apps (IM+) but if something works, and you get a good chance to test as as is the case here then I think you could charge much more. The problem is of course that you're not picking an initial price, you're looking at a increase. If you do go for one, I would suggest removing all mention of the old price from the site and forums. Many will pay $12.99 but may be put off if they new just last week it was $9.99 .. might be something to tie in with a new release, keep v1 at $9.99 and make a new version with more features $12.99 or more?

[hoyeboye]

Is this program available at retail sites? I know Marcus mentioned they take a rather large cut of the profits, so it would be unwise to go through a retail site with a $10 price tag. Based on what countstex said, I would suggest keeping it at $10 (even though its worth more) until you decide to post it on a retail site (which will give you much more exposure.) At that time, I think you could easily take the price up to $15-$20.
Something nobody has mentioned is the adage of "you get what you pay for." I found it to be true quite often when purchasing Palm software from small developers, and is still in my mind when purchasing BB apps; the 30 day demo assuaged my fears with PodTrapper.
In summary, I would suggest going to a retail site, charge $15-$20, and offer a time-limited demo version. You've got a quality product and people will pay for quality.

[countstex]

Had some more thoughts on this... perhaps you could continue with the single price point for the product itself, be that at it's current pricing or more, but add on a yearly subscription account with added benefits. One such idea I came up with was allowing you to manage your subscriptions from the website, so I can add/remove/organise my podcasts whilst at my PC and have PodTrapper pick up those changes when it next runs a download. At present finding a URL for a new podcast online and then getting that to PodTrapper is a pretty manual process, and streamlining of this would be a feature worth paying for. I'm sure other members can think of additional features that would be suited to a more managed PodTrapper account...

[hoyeboye]

With the way the internet is moving, I would steer clear of subscription services. New York Times and AOL have all removed their subscription services, and with ViiGo (an ad supported program) working on adding podcast support, people would be more likely to choose free or one-time-fee over subscription.

Countstex, I do like your idea of managing podcasts from a website. Perhaps integrate Google Reader (for podcast RSS feeds) or team up with MediaFly.

This post is sounding frighteningly familiar to some posts on the Chumby forums.

[countstex]

Aye, I though about linking it to a folder on my google reader account, as then I could access my selection from the BB and the PC with ease. As for the subscription, it was to be in addition to the product.. you pay the one off for the product, and a yearly sub for the services. You could even sell it as 'cloud' based control.. get those buzz words in

[glecko]

New to the PodTrapper family and still in a trial run ... I think I can see value for $9.99 ... but I'm wondering why iPhone apps are pretty much between $1-$3 and sell like hotcakes, but Blackberry seem to be no less than $10 and many seem to be more expensive.

Is it because the SDK is $$ for the blackberry and/or it's harder to code for?

I'd really like to see the blackberry platform adopt a more open model for developers ...

[marwatk]

New to the PodTrapper family and still in a trial run ... I think I can see value for $9.99 ... but I'm wondering why iPhone apps are pretty much between $1-$3 and sell like hotcakes, but Blackberry seem to be no less than $10 and many seem to be more expensive.

Is it because the SDK is $$ for the blackberry and/or it's harder to code for?

I'd really like to see the blackberry platform adopt a more open model for developers ...

The blackberry itself is actually much more open than the iPhone for developers. We can do stuff that apple forbids (run in background, talk to base features, write whatever we want without approval, etc).

The amount we charge is really more a result of the size and exposure of the market. iPhone apps can (and do) sell a hundred thousand copies, whereas Blackberry users don't generally know you can do all the same stuff (though less pretty) on the blackberry, or even that you can install 3rd party apps on it.

The result is that BB devs have to charge more to make up for the low sales numbers. It's actually cheaper and easier (debatable) to develop for BB, if you factor in the cost difference between a PC and a Mac for development

PodTrapper, for example, after 3 months or so, has only sold about 270 copies, half of which sold through retailers (Handango or Mobihand) which take 40-50% off the top. When I first started I was putting 30 or so hours a week into it, and now maybe 10-15, so the math isn't that great, but I have a feeling for most apps they aren't doing it for the cash. (Though it would totally rule to sell 100k copies).

Hopefully the blackberry app store will change the picture a little, but I'm not holding out much hope.

-Marcus

[MJ-bos]

I agree with the above sentiment ... under $10 makes this a "no brainer" for anyone who listens to a podcast even sporadically. Can people get podcasts for "free" without it? Sure. But this app offers value that I"m willing to forgo a few trips to Starbucks for.

I've bought AudioBay... $15 down the toilet.

I've bought BerryTunes... $15 for an app that worked - it did what it said it would do - but wasn't very functional.

The main thing I'd worry about would be Newsgator offering their product on the RIM platform.

Good luck!

MJ (a happy purchaser!)

[snowmangoh]

I'll be honest, I DL'd this app to tide me over till Viigo readded the audio feature to the private beta version of the tango app... I'm going to buy it before you hike the price! This app has so much more control than even the native media player. The ability to skip back and forth in the audio, and a seperate "app" for play/pause so I can hotkey is superb! 9.99 is a deal, and I would have payed more... 15 bucks would have been worth it for sure. The ONLY thing I would change is possibly work on a smoother interface. I've beta-ed about every app on the blackberry over the last 4 years and my opinion of an app is always initially based on how clean it looks... Anyhow... awesome app! Thanks!

[arkolbus]

Just to add my $0.02:

I'm no economist, so I can't say what the price "should" be, but I'd like to recommend a pricing model that I've seen elsewhere (first on magnatune.com several years ago, then elsewhere).

Let each individual user decide what it's worth.

There's been a lot of discussion on the price, with virtually everyone stating that it's worth well more than $9.99, but that there's a psychological digit barrier at $10.00 that would prevent people from trying it in the first place.

Let the user try for free (as implemented), then require a "donation" to unlock. You could enforce a minimum (to ensure some profit above the transaction fees), but otherwise allow the user to decide the amount.

A similar alternative is to allow people to donate via a paypal account on your web site (or through the BB). This would keep things simple when you sell the software, but still allow your very satisfied customers to offer more compensation.

You've got a corner on the market for podcast software on the blackberry. Your software is the only solution I've found that works how I need it to, and does it well. It's also great to see how hard you're working to make improvements, even after you have my $10.

I'd like to make some sort of donation, and I'm sure others would, too. Can you set something up?

[countstex]

Quick aside, if I recall correctly you can set up subscriptions on paypal these days can't you? Now I've paid my $9.99 I'd happily have $1 a month trickling your way to maintain the product since it's become such an essential app for me. I wouln't notice the small donation each month, but get a few people doing it and you've a steady income.

[highline]

Marcus,

If you had a donation option for people who already purchased your program..... I would definitely donate from time to time to support your continued progress in developing this program.

As I have told you on AIM (my sn is BlanketThief1) your program is the most kick ass program I have on my BB... And I use it constantly! I work in law enforcement and it is a gem while out on patrol.

It is definitely worth far more than $10 to me!

[LatesleeperX]

I quickly browsed through the responses, so I may be reiterating something that has been posted previously. If so, I apologize.

The app is fantastic, I downloaded it on a whim, saw that there was a 30 day trial, and figured I'd give it a go and make a decision in a month. I've used the app for 3 days and I'm already sold. I've recommended it to a friend, he's sold. I think the price is right at 9.99. I would pay more for this app, but the standards that I hold the app to would change. For more money I would expect the interface to be cleaned up and come together a bit tighter (color scheme is all over the place and it just doesn't seem cohesive right now). This is a cosmetic complaint but something I would want changed if I was paying $20 for it. Just my opinion.

[marwatk]

Hi all,

I really appreciate all the responses. I think I arrived at a good solution. Check out the details here: http://www.versatilemonkey.com/featurevote.html

I'm interested in feedback if anyone has any...

-Marcus

[arkolbus]

Interesting model. How will this affect how you prioritize bug fixes? Personally, I'd like to see bug fixes remain top priority, regardless of how much money people are paying to vote for features.

Also, you may want to add a "free" vote for features. This may be weighted and combined with the paid vote, or might just be used as a tiebreaker, or used to give you some other quantitative indication of the most desired features. The forums already partially fill this role, but it would be nice to have one location to visit to view all pending features, their priorities, vote for existing features, and suggest new features.

Having just a paid vote may make it seem like users have to pay to influence the development of podtrapper. One of the great things about your development style is that you interact with the users on the forums every day. While I am sure this will continue to be the case, new users may not get that impression.

This is all speculation, since I don't know what percent of PodTrapper's users are on the forums, what their impressions might be, and how important that is. So, take my advice with a grain of salt.

Also, I'd just like to say that this is a very interesting and creative solution. I hope it works for you and I hope you start receiving something a lot closer to the compensation you deserve for your hard work on this excellent program. Expect a donation from me soon (as soon as I can figure out which feature to vote for).

Is your list on the download page prioritized? If not, can you provide one?

[marwatk]

Thanks for the feedback.

It won't affect bug fixes at all, those are always top priority, and it won't impact the list of features itself (I'll still be adding features from user suggestions regardless of whether paid or not), I probably need to make that clearer on the site. Thanks for bringing it up.

I thought about the free vote thing, but figured I'd leave the forums for that, at least until (if?) I get some sort of automation in place to handle it. For the paid ones my intention is to keep the list prioritized by hand.

I haven't had a chance to reorder the todo list according to my own internal priorities yet, but plan to this week. For the most part the bottom of the list is priority, but my list has more things on it than the public one (from things I've gotten in the forums since the last release). I have to figure out a way to publish that more frequently as well (and with more priority info).

All things I'm thinking about, but before I put too much effort into it I wanted to see what kind of reaction I get

Thanks for the feedback!

-Marcus

[Sherm]

I think 9.99 was overly fair. After sitting on the free trial for almost the full period, I'd probably have paid twice that much. And I definitely hear what everyone is saying about the extra-digit price barrier, but what you have, at least to me, is plenty enough to overcome that.

At any rate, AWESOME work with PodTrapper!! Keep it up, and thank you!

[countstex]

And I guess you're already looking into getting on App World? I'm sure plenty of us will be ready to bash 5 stars on it

[marwatk]

I've been working to try to get in the App World since the opened it up for submissions (I've seen about 3 huge revisions of their backend stuff by now). Still not accepted, though... <sigh>

-Marcus

[countstex]

Any way for userbase can effect this, can we make requests to them anywhere?

[marwatk]

I'm not sure, I think at this point they're just swamped, so I don't want to overwhelm them any further. If it comes to that, though, I'll definitely let you know

-Marcus

[Guest]

Hi,

Let's just say I would have paid more than 10$ for your app but at the same time seeing the price and the excellent support I feel that I am not taken advantage of like other mobile app products (15-20$+ without a trial). It can build a relationship with the company that can last and be much more than a "quick cash-grab".

Just to let you know, I've switched phone just to be able to use your app (tested it with the BB simulator to be sure). I mainly use my phone(or mp3 player) for podcasts and I've tried them all (iPod, iPhone, Windows mobile, Symbian and now Blackberry). The other solution requires to sync with a pc (iPod, iPhone), are hacks that needs multiple apps (Windows Mobile) or are poorly thought out and slow (Symbian).

Thank you for making such a great app btw!

[arkolbus]

Just donated. How is the feature vote working out for you?

Also, is there any news on a prioritized update list?

[marwatk]

Just donated

Thanks!

How is the feature vote working out for you?

Well, you're the third I didn't have any expectations going into it, so I'm not that worried about it (I'm happy with the initial $10 (or $8 or $6 depending on where you buy it, though I like $10 best ))

Also, is there any news on a prioritized update list?

Well, I was going to do it, but for the other two people I've managed to work their features into the release within a couple of days after their request, so I didn't really worry about it. For yours I'll likely do the same, except maybe the multiple playlists thing, that's going to be hard, but I'll definitely start on it. There's a lot to that, but I think I've got a basic idea of how it should work, but it's going to take some pretty heavy testing (it'll be a fundamental change to how playlists currently work), so it may take a few betas.

-Marcus

[mgerbasio]

Can't you sell the software on your web site directly, say through paypal, for $10 and have the price on the other sites as $15?

Regards-Michael G.

[arkolbus]

Can't you sell the software on your web site directly, say through paypal, for $10 and have the price on the other sites as $15?

Regards-Michael G.

That may be against the terms of service for some vendors. I don't know for sure, but I imagine they'd be upset if there was a markup.

Credit card companies do something similar. Both the credit card companies and the third-party vendors are gatekeepers to a lot of additional revenue/traffic, so they set the terms. Whether or not those terms are reasonable is another story, and I won't go there.

In any case, I haven't seen any software that is priced differently based on where you buy it from (apart from sales), so I think that the vendors might be controlling this. Don't know for sure though, maybe Marcus (or someone else with experience) can comment?

[marwatk]

Yup, it's in the terms that you can't price it cheaper anywhere else. I'll be dropping Handango support here soon (they take like 60% when all is said and done), but will likely keep mobihand around (they power the crackberry store), since crackberry drives a lot of traffic.

-Marcus

[Gib]

My advice for what it's worth. First the things you're doing right :

1. I won't bother trying a feature-limited demo of anything unless I'm desperate. I want to try the full functionality of a product before paying. Your trial period is reasonable.

2. I won't buy a product which has the possibility of stopping working in the future. I'll consider paying a subscription to provide me with new features, but I won't pay one to keep the current product working. This is for various reasons, but largely because such a "feature" requires technological trickery to work. The trickery might go wrong, or the author might go out of business, leaving me with a useless product.

3. I always look for free products before considering paying for one. I was happy to try your product knowing if I liked it I would have to pay $10. I'm not sure if I'd have looked at it if I knew it would cost $20. Maybe, but I'd have tried other products first. Of course, having used it, I think it's worth that
For some reason I think that a program on my phone should cost less than one on my PC. Not sure why, but it's an ingrained feeling.

4. It's great you're still working on the product and interactive with your users. It's the main reason that I paid for the product at the end of the trial, even though it doesn't support my most desired feature (support of bluetooth buttons, although the fact no other third party software supports this might have something to do with it too).

5. Good idea about the "donate for a feature" option...

Suggestion:
1. I think it's reasonable that there's a limited time that a user can continue to get the latest version. Perhaps a yearly payment of $10.

[andytizer]

The fully functional trial was perfect in getting me hooked and thus causing me to mash your PayPal button as fast as possible when my next podcast didn't automatically download. $10 is a good price point, if it was any more I would have tried to figure out other ways of automatically syncing podcasts onto my Berry (although rather that would invariably be a less elegant solution than PodTrapper).

[Khue]

As a consumer, I think the 10 dollar price point is excellent. Someone else said it in the thread but I am going to reiterate the point. For 10 dollars why would you not buy it? As a developer I think 10 dollars is a little low considering you are continuously developing and supporting the application throughout it's lifetime (however long that will be). It appears as if new functionality is being added all the time and as you've mentioned before the sdk for BB isn't as nice as Apple's iPhone platform which may or may not contribute to difficulties developing for the device. Given those few facts if you are going with a pricing plan that is a one time buy model you could justify up to $25 dollars.

[tack]

One of the pricing models that really jives with me is what lwn.net does for their subscription. You basically get to pick how much you want to pay (for the same content) with 3 different subscription levels: starving hacker ($2.50/mo), professional hacker ($5/mo), or project leader ($10/mo). You get to adjust your level at any time. As I've advanced in my career (and my salary along with it), I've adjusted my level from starving hacker through to project leader. I value the content there, but more importantly, it really makes me feel warm and fuzzy that I get to decide how much to pay based on my own circumstances and what value I place on the content.

I just discovered PodTrapper this morning (after a colleague recommended it) and registered it a short while ago. I'd have paid $30 for it, because that's how much I enjoy podcasts and audio books relative to my amount of disposable income.

So why not do something similar? Let the user pick the price, from $10, $15, or $20, perhaps. Make it clear the program is the same in each case, and that you're offering different pricing structures because not everyone's financial situation is the same, but if they really enjoy the program and both want and are able to show you how much, they can kick you the extra bit as a token of appreciation.

You might find that people are more charitable than you'd otherwise expect.

[HyTrojan]

Still got a few days to evaluate. I will gladly pay the reasonable price when it expires. I love this app. RIM should have included something like this on the OS, but then again, I'd rather give the extra funds to the geeks in need!!! Thanks again for a great app!!!

[marwatk]

I will gladly pay the reasonable price when it expires. I love this app.

Thanks!

RIM should have included something like this on the OS

I think they're working on something, but I have no clue what kind of functionality it will have. (My only clue for this is that all OS 5.0 devices come with a 'Podcasts' folder predefined on their SD card).

-Marcus

[ofutur]

I think they're working on something, but I have no clue what kind of functionality it will have. (My only clue for this is that all OS 5.0 devices come with a 'Podcasts' folder predefined on their SD card).

Isn't this folder for the podcasts which are displayed in the the browser?

[marwatk]

Not sure, I've never tried. Would be interesting to confirm though. I'll see if i can get something to go in there.

-Marcus